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BEGIN THE COLD DAYS DISCUSSIONS~!

[luciazephyr]

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[luciazephyr]

I did a liveblog on tumblr here and did a non-spoilery review here. Also, individual posts like speculation on Marcone's deal with Vadderung and what I really didn't like about Winter's portrayal.

Also, found a blog post here.

Short and sweet: Did you like it?

[luciazephyr]

for me it's a no. I tried really hard to, but. Yeah. 8(

Re: Short and sweet: Did you like it?

[binz]

I feel ridiculous having opinions on this considering I read the book in a 20 minute break, and will have to actually go back and for reals read it later, but, my on that thoughts. Not quite as short:

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this one, although a lot of it comes down to being disappointed underwhelmed. So much of it was just super sloppy, from the technical writing to the narrative itself, it was just easy way out, easy way out over and over again, up to and including massive amonts of retconning just to fuck over Molly one more time (which, frankly, Molly has been being maneuvered into something like that since before she was even introduced as a character, and if that was the only way JB saw to do it... come on, man, stop wasting our time. Some more.).

Some parts were pretty great, but so many of them left me going ....really? The parallels between the mythic arc and the arc in the Codex Alera is either lazyass or (hopefully!) because it's just not refined enough yet. Donar as Kringle (and/or whoever else he may be above beyond and including that) is mythically supported, but essentialises some of the only actual examples of the potentially really complex political nexus of the supernatural world we've been shown ...but essentialising was the name of the game, wasn't it? Because seriously, retconning and sandpapering away all the awesome edges, and we get that for Summer (good! simple! not cerebral giants!) and Winter (booooo so evol and also slutty).

Plus, you know. The rape thing. The rape thing is probably the most disappointing to me. The 100% legit the fuck are you doing you fuckhead rape culture, social responsibility, Men Don't Rape Evil Outside Forces Make Them Do It/ Rape Is Just Lust Men Are The Real Victims For Being So Lusty And Fighting Against It All The Time Stop Whining Frigid Women issues on one hand, and the lazy, lazy writing on the other. The narrative breadcrumbs were there; this wasn't a huge leap of authorial logic for JB to make, but come on man. This was shoddy, sloppy work. I just keep thinking of look what fandom did using the same narrative cues (Winter Bike, sex positivity, Harry Learns Shit For Real), and look what JB did.

Tl;DR didn't really like it, felt like we got a really early draft. I'm not mad, I'm ~disappointed. (And also sort of mad.)

Re: Short and sweet: Did you like it?

[(Anonymous)]

IA

oh man, the rape thing :|
I'm glad Murphy at least tried to point out that men who talk about their dick like it's a separate being is full of shit. But the entire time, Harry's POV just reads like "oh, men are natural rapists". It makes me wish he had stayed dead :P

Also, the writing and the pacing just don't feel as tight as some of the other Dresden books. I had the whole weekend to read it, and end up taking frequent breaks because it just didn't grab my attention.

Re: Short and sweet: Did you like it?

[luciazephyr]

I just keep thinking of look what fandom did using the same narrative cues (Winter Bike, sex positivity, Harry Learns Shit For Real), and look what JB did.

That is probably the most telling thing about the book. Because it somehow managed to ramp up the sex negativity, which is amazing in the same way Butcher's double-fridging of Susan is amazing.


I love that you didn't even mention the gay dudes soapbox from chapter 30. Too much fury?

Re: Short and sweet: Did you like it?

[grenegome]

I did! But I should add the caveat that I am really really easy for plot revelations. Like, embarrassingly so. So all the 'This is what the Island does!", "This is the deal with the Outsiders!", "This is what the Gatekeeper does!", "Ohhhh, Mac has a mysterious ~secret past~" and so on was like the most delicious of junk foods for me. Like, I know it's probably bad for me, but I just can't stop eating.

Granted, it didn't stop me howling OH JIM BUTCHER NO at various points, but there was enough victorious punching of the air for me to have come out of it on the right side of like. Not sure how well it would hold up to re-reads though, as the revelations were a big part of the fun I had.

Re: Short and sweet: Did you like it?

[binz]

I like your reaction best! Super hoping now that when I have time to sit down and read properly, I'll get caught up in it all. Revelations are like caffeine for me, most of the time, too.

And maybe Butcher will go there and have him deal with the fact that the rapeyness is his own fucked up perception of lust and sex and he thinks he's an evol bastard now so the mantel is amplifying the hunger he ~feels~ is most appropriate. Or something. I can live in delusions.

P.S. Harry doing chores for Mother Winter = best ever. Get him an apron and a sack of dust and set him to it!

What fic do you want/need/will die without?

[luciazephyr]

< ! >

[luciazephyr]

AU fic that explores Harry's new mantle without the gross shit. Things like him

-being more ruthless in combat (THE BIRTHDAY PARTY SCENE, WHERE HE SHATTERED THAT SIDHE LORD? I fucking seal-clapped. I wanted that explored.)

-pulling some spirit vs letter shenanigans like the Fae do (he's forced into it with the Winter's Law bit, but I wanted him doing it himself)

-more sexuality and a want for finer things (instead of the Sex Is Evil thing)

-and ooooh god let him be suddenly infatuated with mortals. I want that whole "the Faerie are in love with mortals" to affect him. Maybe he doesn't hook mortals into deals that ruin their lives, but having some morally questionable fun would be amaaaaazing.

Re: What fic do you want/need/will die without?

[(Anonymous)]

The political fallout in the Courts. Particularly if it can involve Molly and Harry teaming up to make Winter safer for mortals, maybe with Sarissa's help as that's kind of in her job description now, and Mab deliberately Not Noticing certain things she could technically take issue with and oh god I have no idea how Fix figures in there. Basically, Winter getting stronger and less douchey at the same time.

Harry getting a (preferably non sexual because Molly) kick out of being able to serve a Lady-- Molly points him at the heavy magical lifting she wants done, and Harry does it because grrr he is man, and just him kind of enjoying his chivalry in a safe way while not denying Molly any agency (...somehow. IDK).

Re: What fic do you want/need/will die without?

[(Anonymous)]

Erlking really seems to be disinclined to chase Harry down and hurt him, considering Dead Beat.

Therefore, I want fic with Embracing the Mantle, chasing him down, run beside him, be chased by him, and have filthy filthy sex on the carcasses of their enemies, and feed one another raw meat.

And the day after has Dresden puking his guts up because of the raw meat while the Erlking laughs at him. (And waits for him to finish so they can have another round.)

Re: What fic do you want/need/will die without?

[(Anonymous)]

All the Demonreach/Harry domestic fic.

And thanks to the thread above, an AU where Kincaid and Marcone got together pre-canon and raised Ivy together and Harry is just so charmed jealous adoring terrified.

Re: BEGIN THE COLD DAYS DISCUSSIONS~!

[(Anonymous)]

I really need to reread the book when I'm not sleep-deprived and supposed to be concentrating on finals and can come up with something more coherent, but the part where Vadderung is pushing Harry to the realization that he has friends who he can ask to pay Vadderung's price for him and that is how Harry can get Donar's advice? I really hope Vadderung is also talking about Marcone in Changes, and Harry's been overestimating his ability to carry on one conversation at a time.

Re: BEGIN THE COLD DAYS DISCUSSIONS~!

[grenegome]

I got sidetracked trying to work out if the coin itself was relevant-- was that a veiled reference to the Denerians?

Re: BEGIN THE COLD DAYS DISCUSSIONS~!

[(Anonymous)]

Butcher was HELLA heavy handed in the begining about hinting about how mantles might be able to be transformed/changed.

Mother Winter's Walking Stick is obviously the Black Staff, Y/N?

Our name, Mother Winter and Mother Summer are actually the same being, Earth/Gaia?

Also, Mother Winter's walking stick = Black Staff, Y/N?

...Also I need more Erlking/Dresden like fucking burning

Re: BEGIN THE COLD DAYS DISCUSSIONS~!

[(Anonymous)]

...Also I need more Erlking/Dresden like fucking burning You should totes go and prompt that. I could be persuaded to write terrible porn.

I feel silly for not making the Black Staff link until reading everyone else's comments and then being like OH. OF COURSE. ...has the Council had it since before Eb? Because I got the impression it was a role he'd inherited.

The personas of different powers was interesting, because it made me wonder how many Harry will end up taking on. He wears a few different hats already, between Wizard, Knight, Za Lord, and capital W Warden. Maybe some day he'll hit an apotheosis point? Coming back from the dead might help with that...

Mac Re: BEGIN THE COLD DAYS DISCUSSIONS~!

[(Anonymous)]

Are we thinking former angel? Because that's my immediate, knee jerk association with 'watcher'. Also a rationale for his whole neutral party shtick, he ducked out of a war between heaven and hell, and now refuses to take sides in anyone's war. (Except secretly Harry's, because I think Harry's is the side of reality still existing, and Mac's rather fond of him anyway).

Re: Mac Re: BEGIN THE COLD DAYS DISCUSSIONS~!

[luciazephyr]

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO DIDN'T ASSUME ANGEL?

Maybe I'm just bored by the Abrahamic mythology in the series, but my immediate thought was that he was an Outsider defector of some kind...

Mac wearily putting his Neutral Zone sign back on the wall, aaaaaaaw 8(

Re: Mac Re: BEGIN THE COLD DAYS DISCUSSIONS~!

[patrick_diomedes]

Yeah, no, I thought that too. Interestingly, in the Book of Enoch, which is what talks about the Grigori (watchers) the most, a lot of the Grigori were responsible for teaching humans things. Azazel, for example, supposedly taught the forging of weapons. So what if Mac was the one who taught humans how to brew beer?

Re: Mac Re: BEGIN THE COLD DAYS DISCUSSIONS~!

[(Anonymous)]

I'm still going with God (because his beer is proof that he loves us and wants us to be happy), because it's just cheesy enough for the series, and it may or may not tie in from what I remember about the end of SmF.

Ratings System/Warning website for triggery books?

[(Anonymous)]

Ratings System/Warning website for triggery books?

I've been reading a lot of the commentary on some of the most controversial scenes in Cold Days. It got me to wonder, is there a location that people who are affected by whatever kind of trigger can check and be warned or know to avoid a specific book?

I haven't really come across anything like that in my searches of the internet, other than reviews, but that might help people not be hit over the head with this stuff.

Re: Ratings System/Warning website for triggery books?

[luciazephyr]

This should totally be a thing, but I have no idea how to get it done. Me, I tend to wait until my friends see movies or read books, and use them as a barometer.

Re: BEGIN THE COLD DAYS DISCUSSIONS~!

[(Anonymous)]

Kringle is Odin?

Re: BEGIN THE COLD DAYS DISCUSSIONS~!

[(Anonymous)]

Yup. That is how I interpreted it.