dresden_kink_mods: black and white crescent moon and stars, sort of a burn out affect (Default)
dresden_kink_mods ([personal profile] dresden_kink_mods) wrote in [community profile] dresden_kink2012-01-10 11:13 pm
Entry tags:

Round Five by five, baby!

Round Five: Open!
Ghost Story Prompts and meta: Open!
Tracking Post: Open

| Round One: open only for feedback, WIPs continued in The Overflow Post or the current round. Link back to your previous posts! |
| Round Two: open only for feedback, WIPs continued in The Overflow Post or the current round. Link back to your previous posts! |
| Round Three: open only for feedback and WIPs continuation. You can also continue in The Overflow Post or the current round. Link back to your previous posts! |
| Round Four: open only for feedback and WIPs continuation. You can also continue in The Overflow Post or the current round. Link back to your previous posts! |

Read this first. Do it. There will be a test.

The Rules. Including the Posting Guidelines. aka:

In the first line of your fill*, you must include:

1) Character(s)/Pairing(s)/Threesome(s)/Moresome(s) as applicable.
2) Any kinks included. Please take this to include scenarios, themes, etc. Use your imagination.
3) MANDATORY WARNINGS/CONTENT NOTES if there is dubcon or noncon, underage characters in sexual situations, major character death, suicide, self-harm, and/or graphic descriptions or extensive discussions of abuse.
Please consider trigger warnings for any other widespread triggers in your fill, such as natural disasters, or specifying instances of harm, such as eating disorders.
Please don't conflate warnings and kinks; treat each individually, and use your pairings to indicate gen/het/slash/multi/&c. Do not warn for het, slash, or otherwise.

Characters & Pairings: Mentions of Harry Dresden/John Marcone, but entirely nonsexual gen in this fic. Harry Dresden, John Marcone, Ebenezar McCoy, Thomas Raith, Justine, Listens to Wind, Mister, Mouse.
Kinks: kidfic, second childhood, age regression, family bonding, fish out of water, situational:age change, involuntary transformation
Content notes: no mandatory notes. Mentions of a previous sexual relationship between two adults, one of whom is now a child, but absolutely no sexual contact or content while said character is a kid. Veg*n trigger warning for death of an animal.


For images: Please post image prompts and fills and all other images with alt tag descriptions or with a text description of the piece. Example: [img src="neked.jpg" alt="Here's John being all hot and half naked saying Dresden et cetera et cetera"], replace [ ] with < >. If you are linking to an external image, please include a description with the link.

NEW FOR ROUND FIVE: After you have posted your fill, please go to the fill tracking post and comment there to say so, including a link back to your fill. You don't have to do this, but no guarantees it will be caught otherwise.

Thank you.

The discussion post is here. Mod questions go here. The delicious account is here, (currently on-hold. Thanks, newdelicious.). The pinboard account is here (not up to date).

Don't forget about all the unfilled prompts. Got an unfilled prompt you want to give a second chance? Repost it here. Otherwise, go ahead and repost an unfilled prompt as a new comment with a link to the original if you are filling it. Please indicate in the subject line that it is a Repost To Fill.

Open prompt is here: http://dresden-kink.dreamwidth.org/3344.html?thread=3032848#cmt3032848

Comments in chronological order: http://dresden-kink.dreamwidth.org/3344.html?view=flat

Edit 5-14-15 So 3+ years later, the only comments this post is getting are spam comments. I've changed the settings to screen all comments to discourage that. If you leave a legit comment, I will unscreen it. Thanks, all. I had a great time.
luciazephyr: Book of the Still, the time traveler's lifeline (Default)

OKAY FOR REAL THIS TIME: Cold Days Discussion Stuffs!

[personal profile] luciazephyr 2012-12-02 01:22 am (UTC)(link)

sorry for my reading comp fail, mods

Cold Days Spoilers - Mab's Favourite

(Anonymous) 2012-12-03 11:39 am (UTC)(link)


Could I have Harry actually getting to enjoy some of the perks of being Winter Knight, and having a Queen who is delighted with how well he fits Winter's purpose (stomping on Outsiders) and how good he is at his job? Ideally, the perks are not the terrifying, corruptive, steal your soul kind of perks. More along the lines of like, soft beds, nice clothes, and occasionally being allowed to mouth off to scary things with impunity.

Re: Cold Days Spoilers - Mab's Favourite

(Anonymous) 2012-12-07 02:01 am (UTC)(link)
Yesssssss. Seconding this so hard.

COLD DAYS SPOILERS: murphy/einherjaren

[personal profile] patrick_diomedes 2012-12-04 03:48 am (UTC)(link)
since Ghost Story, Murphy's apparently only been hanging out with the Einherjaren at the BFS. So, I want some stuff with her "hanging out" with them. Could be only one on one, or a whole group. And especially if she's sparring with one and they fuck right there on the mat.

Cold Days Spoilers

(Anonymous) 2012-12-04 10:41 am (UTC)(link)

So obviously the Erlking and Santa/Vadderung/Odin have something of a broship going on. I need deets, fandom. Stories, anecdotes, little details of their friendship that time has forgot. Tell me about that their first hunt together or how they met or if they always just knew each other. Tell me about the time the Erlking told Odin about that little shit of a wizard who fucking summoned him like it was nothing and how Odin probably laughed his ass off at the Erlking's indignant glares etc etc etc.

tl;dr the Erlking and Odin are bros. I want to know more about their past history together.

COLD DAYS SPOILERS The Time After the Erlking got out of that Embarrassing Summoning Situation (1/1)

(Anonymous) 2012-12-04 05:04 pm (UTC)(link)


Characters: Vadderung, other aspects of Vadderung, Erlking, other aspects of Erlking.
Warnings: None applicable.
Set a short time after Dead Beat, but drawing on Cold Days plot revelations.

Halloween had passed, the scuffle in Chicago had resolved without anyone claiming the Darkhallow, and Donar was debating changing hats for the season. There were advantages to wearing that side of himself most openly; a greater aptitude for craftsmanship, the ease of riding through the air, a better insight into the moral standing of mortals who hoped for presents. He had to weigh it against the losses, and the calculation was a fine one.

As was Donar’s custom in November, he went walking with Kringle’s coat folded over one arm, waiting to be told if the time was right. He spent more and more of each year clad in red, the power of the season surging in him without due regard for the calendar.

He was not walking long in the old forests before a Way opened, and an older friend rode through. Herne was clad simply, all in green, a bow slung over his shoulder.

“Well met,” Donar called, smiling. “Robin of the Wood, today? Are you feeling humble?” Not that Robin was humble as such, but the power in him was a little tamer than the Erlking’s, a little kinder and more closely shaped by mortal stories.

Robin scowled and leapt from his horse. “Laugh if you must, Vadderung.”

“Why ever should I laugh?” he asked, and shook out Kringle’s coat, considering it. “Ho, ho, h-mmm.” Red and green, they would suit.

“Halloween. I know you keep your eye on that city.”

“Oh of course, your misadventure!” It was hard not to smile, but Robin was easy to rile. He grew taller as Donar watched, Lincoln green fading to hunting leathers.

“He held the Hunt. I will run him down and chew his marrow, when next I ride.”
“Hmm. I think you’d have better sport with a little patience.”

“You do watch for him, then? You and Winter and all the rest?” Donar watched everyone. He waits, he shores up the Baron’s power to keep a foothold in Chicago. One day, Harry Dresden shall call on him, and Donar shall take his measure.

“He amuses me.” True enough; the boy had raised a dinosaur and ridden it through the city. The einherjarren had been reenacting it in the halls for weeks.

His friend set down the bow. Not a peaceful gesture, but a sign that he was drawing back from the part of himself that favored it. “Oh, I’m sure. The starborn one, watched by the Winter Queen. He who walks his mother’s ways, guided from the womb by the Leanansidhe.” His eyes are still Robin’s, they rake over Donar, eyes that never missed their mark. “I’m sure that confluence of powers amuses you greatly.”

Herne knows him too well, they have run together too often. But Donar knows Herne too. “That must have been frightening,” Donar smiled. “Held by a starborn child on Halloween. I don’t blame you for taking to the green.”

Robin sloughs away, leaving the Erlking to fold his arms and glare. “What do you know? What is he for? I’d tear it out of him, but I don’t think he knows.”

Questions for Odin, not Kringle. Perhaps the coat can wait. “Who knows anything, in these troubled times?”

“You. Always you, and your ravens.”

Donar grinned, pleased with the flattery. “I’m not omnipotent.”

“But you’ve sported with the Lady Lea of late.” The Erlking had his own smile now. He had quarrelled with the Leanansidhe more than once, but Donar suspected it was the kind of quarrel that delighted both parties.

“Well, if you know that, you should be able to source your own gossip. But I forget, your goblins are poor conversationalists.”

“My hall is for feasting,” he laughed. “And I have run down five bucks today.”

“Delicious.” As meat always was in the Erlking’s hall, where it tasted of life and bloody victory.

Herne turned back to his mount, which had grown to match him. “I’ll grant guestright, if you want it. But bring me some mead, and some answers.”

“I can promise the mead. You’ll have to work for the answers.”

“Riddles! Another kind of hunt, I suppose.” The horse reared under him, and Vadderung watched the power of the Hunter settle. “Come at nightfall.”


The Erlking rode away, and Donar re-folded the coat. It would keep, for another night at least.

Cold Days Spoilers

(Anonymous) 2012-12-04 10:45 am (UTC)(link)

Harry/Erlking (or just gen, if you so wish it)

For whatever reason the Winter Knight finds himself in the Erlking's domain and ends up seeking asylum from *handwaves* something/someone he's running from. Post Cold Days. How does the Erlking react after what happened during the hunt?

Harry, Erlking, Changes AU

(Anonymous) 2012-12-04 10:54 am (UTC)(link)
No Cold Days Spoilers

So some fic has presupposed that Harry, instead of going to Mab back in Changes, went to Marcone for help/power/what-have-you but what if he didn't, what if instead he went to the Erlking. I know he couldn't give him power like the Winter Knight mantle but he's got enough power on his own, I'd think. I can't help but wonder a) what the hell kind of sweet talking would Harry have to do to get the Erlking not to kill him where he stands and b) how exactly would that end up? Better or worse?

Also, gen slash whatever. Pairings can be any or none.

I just want all the Erlking fic, I'm sorry. I can't help myself :3

cold days spoilers

(Anonymous) 2012-12-04 08:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Marcone/Harry or gen

Harry accidentally let's something slip and Marcone finds out what went on during the first 77 days that Harry spent with Mab. I'd like something that focuses on the obvious trauma Harry went through, even if Harry tells himself it was "beneficial" in the end.

spoilers for Cold Days

(Anonymous) 2012-12-05 12:06 am (UTC)(link)
Mac, gen/meta

Speculatory stories on Mac. What's his deal? What is he hiding? How did he get where he is today? His thoughts on the events of Cold Days? I'm curious to see what you all could come up with. :)

Spoilers for Cold Days

(Anonymous) 2012-12-06 05:17 am (UTC)(link)
Considering that Vadderung has been outed as Kringle, and we know that big guns like him can lend their power I want to see Marcone being tapped to cover Kringle for an event or a day or something. Maybe as payment for something or cause Marcone's the only one who can because of his devotion to protecting kids. Pretty much I'm mentally picturing his incredulity at being told he's gonna be Santa (with the power it implies) and him resisting the role (cause how can a criminal like him be Santa) but he gets sucked into it. If only for one day. Pretty much I just want to see Marcone wiling to bend his mental defenses to give kids joy, and maybe ending up with a kernel of it for himself.

Bonus points if Hendricks gets tapped as the reluctant Santa's little big helper elf, *snickers* while Gard is totally into it.

Gen(?) Dresden, age difference, Marcone.

(Anonymous) 2012-12-08 06:04 am (UTC)(link)
So wizards live a very long time right?

So what if that meant that they reach adulthood at a much later age than regular mortals. Though their bodies might do the whole puberty thing normally, their minds/emotions/generally inside stuff is still that of a someone much younger.

Suddenly we have a new explanation for Harry's immaturity/obliviousness.

He's still a child. At least on wizard terms. It might not be as easy to tell with mortals, but how would Harry's friends react to knowing that he's not even legal in his culture?

More importantly: how would Marcone react? Especially as it's now doubly obvious the White Council doesn't give a fuck about it's children.

Re: Gen(?) Dresden, age difference, Marcone.

(Anonymous) 2012-12-14 11:23 pm (UTC)(link)
I had the same thought for a long time. I am so glad I am not the only one

Re: Gen(?) Dresden, age difference, Marcone.

(Anonymous) - 2012-12-15 08:06 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Gen(?) Dresden, age difference, Marcone.

(Anonymous) - 2017-01-01 18:29 (UTC) - Expand

Christmas at the Carpenter's

(Anonymous) 2012-12-08 11:20 pm (UTC)(link)
I was re-re-re-re-rereading one of my favorite Christmas fanfics (https://archiveofourown.org/works/238789) (Snow Days, sequel to Near Miss), and it ends before Dresden and Marcone go to the Carpenter's for Christmas dinner. I would dearly love to see that scene, meme, or something like it, if you don't want write in the Near Miss AU. (But this Anon would be happy if you did!)

Dresden/Marcone, please.

Re: Christmas at the Carpenter's

(Anonymous) 2012-12-09 05:05 am (UTC)(link)

I would love anything set in this series! I love this series so much more than canon.


(Anonymous) 2012-12-09 11:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Donar/Dresden Marcone/Dresden Or Kincaid/Dresden/Marcone

Inspired by the Dragon!Harry fill.

In which Harry is a very young dragon who can only be seen by children and likes to protect the children in Chicago's park. He occassionally turns into a wizard in order to interact with humans. Recently, he has been adopted by Mister and Mouse (both whom he found, but they're his owners now).

Harry gets found out in two ways unless writernon perfers another option:
1) Marcone gets curious and questions why Chicago's parks have been safer lately. Donar gets curious and investigates.
2) Ivy finds out about Harry and likes teaching him about human things. She convinces him to turn into a wizard so she can introduce him to other people.

Extra options:
-Up to Writernon if Marcone has met Harry when he was young (and when Harry was very tiny), but can't see him now b/c of what he is today.
-Harry's appearance, he could be the medieval-ish dragon or kinda like the Asian long dragon(I kinda want to see him curl up around a building)
-What kind of Dragon? There are a lot of kinds, some can be seen, some can't. And some are nearly extinct, like tree dragons.

Paring so far Dresden/Marcone no kink so far

Harry had always been interested in the humans. They were so different from him. All frail and short lived, running around every day. Rushing thinks. Even ant’s moves slower than they did. And ants had even less time than humans.

but the interest had grown to fascination the day a two small humans had climbed up into the tree he was sleeping in and started petting him. And talking! It had been ice-cream, and toys, and why the sky was blue and why didn’t he follow them hone so they could dress him up like the big breasted girl next door did to her overly big rat that sat in her purse every day? Not that he was a rat of course they were quick to reassure him he wan not at all whiny and yapping as the next door one was. No he was their genetic-mutation-the-if-he-could-get-kids-then-was-a-new-speice-dragon.like-ting.

The two kids were small and they were very alike and completely normal. Untill he realised that four year olds did not know what advanced genetics was.

But did not matter, Harry liked the way the children would give him leaves and games to play, the way their laughter sang thru the air.

So when one day an Angry one decided to live in the pond in Harry’s Kingdom and starter scaring the children he was not Happy.

The Angry one soon learned that it was a Bad idea to live in Harry’s Kingdom and scare his charges.

And so it went on, the children came to his Kingdom and laughed and played, and Harry kept the Angry ones away. But one in a while a Sad one came to the park and once a sparkling one came to his kingdom. He smelled funny, and had this energy around him. Airy and light but with lightning’s as well.

Life was good.

Then life was not so good. A big Angry one came into his Kingdom and started tearing in his trees. Not-Children followed on four legs but could not stop the big Angry one. Harry was just about to tell the Angry one when several growling black “car” came into his Kingdom as well.

The children had explained what “car” was but he never seen one up close. Maybe thirty grown-ups came out of the black cars and started throwing metal at the Angry one.

Harry snorted. They were all wrong. They had to wait for the sun if they wanted to win with metal. He shook his head. He could help with teeth and claw but settled to see in they were any use to him in Not-Today.

One grown-up was interesting; he had really nice green eyes like the small paper slips he collected in his nest. He had several hundreds of those but really did like gold and silver better to sleep on.

So he had a very valid reason to growl and hiss when the angry one swiped a paw and tried to eat Green-eyes.
Harry shot out from behind his tree and jumped over the silly Angry one and snatched Green-eyes out of the air. Harry held the grown-up carefully in his claws and started scowling the Angry one. This was his Kingdom, if the Angry one wanted to be angry he could be angry elsewhere.

For one second the big Angry one was silent then it Attacked Him! Harry jumped over the angry one and landed on its back and bit it behind its head. The Angry one collapsed instantly because of the sleeping agents in his teeth. Harry snorted in distain. The Angry one should be grateful he only put him to sleep and didn’t fry or poisoned him instead.

Harry shook his head and put green-eyes down on the ground. He lay down on the grass and met the clam eyes of the incredibly fascinating human.

Re: Dragon!harry

(Anonymous) 2012-12-18 01:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Awww. Dragon!Harry is adorable.

Harry Dresden/OMC, Harry Dresden/?, gloryhole, infidelity, denial, boatloads of Harry's issues

(Anonymous) 2012-12-10 08:38 am (UTC)(link)
Strange prompt is a little strange but it makes sense in my head so bear with me. I figure this would take place sometime way back when in the series when Harry was a lot less paranoid and battle hardened (or in a completely non-magic AU-verse, if you prefer - anon is a fan of both tbh) and basically had a lot less on his mind.

Harry/multiple anonymous men, Harry/any canon male character (optional) gen/slash

For some reason or another, Harry routinely gives head at gloryholes. (He still dates women, has relationships and some occasional not-quite-that-satisfying sex with them but. Gloryholes.) He rationalizes it, of course. Tells himself he does it because it's calming, or it helps him focus, or because he's good at it (but never because he likes it, no) or because he went into the wrong stall one day and didn't know what else to do (like falling to his knees instead of walking out was the best out of all possible options) and now its just become a thing that he rationalizes so hard he doesn't even think about or acknowledge entirely. I figure he doesn't even let himself get off (by ignoring that it even gets him hard in the first place) (and its not cheating if he doesn't enjoy it, right?) while he does it and we all know he doesn't like to jerk off even when he's alone so he's basically a humongous side of sexual frustration to go with that serving of complete and utter self denial.

But things change when someone finds out / mentions they know offhand and his carefully compartmentalized issues all crumble down upon him and he's forced to deal with whatever issues are causing him to repress this side of him so goddamned hard in the first place.

TL;DR - Harry frequents a gloryhole and represses, denies, and ignores everything that means until someone lets him in on the fact that his secret is not as secret as he thinks. Cue Harry freaking the fuck out and being forced to confront his issues head on. (Optional) That someone who knows, helps him through it.

fyi I'm totally partial to Marcone but am open to it being someone else or even keeping it gen.
(deleted comment)
(deleted comment)


(Anonymous) - 2012-12-18 01:12 (UTC) - Expand

spoilers for cold days

(Anonymous) 2012-12-18 01:27 am (UTC)(link)
Cis-girl!Harry POV during Cold Days. I just want to read something with female Harry that takes in account the things that happened in the book.

Cold Days spoilers, Harry/Demonreach

(Anonymous) 2012-12-23 07:27 pm (UTC)(link)
So after Cold Days, Harry settles on the island and begins to turn it into his new home. Demonreach and he had a bond before, but now the genius loci reveals just how much it likes Harry.

Ideally, I'd like possessive, inhuman, somewhat frightening Demonreach topping Harry ... BUT I'd also like this to be a little fuzzy and fluffy because as scary as Demonreach is, if Harry said "sit", it would roll over and beg. Or something. Bonus if Demonreach felt similarly about Merlin.

PLEA FOR ASSISTANCE Re: Cold Days spoilers, Harry/Demonreach

(Anonymous) 2013-02-20 12:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Hi anons, I've got some stuff written for this prompt, but I only have Cold Days in audiobook at the moment. Could someone with the actual text please tell me how Demonreach's out-loud dialog is portrayed? Like, does it do THE ALL CAPS THING LIKE IN GHOST STORY WHEN IT IS EMITTING THOUGHT.
or does it speak in normal capitalization with quotations marks, or what?

spoilers for cold days, Harry/various

(Anonymous) 2012-12-23 10:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Harry realizes that he's not going to get rid of the Winter mantle any time soon, so he decides to find a way to supress his sexual desires. Bob, or whoever he asks for advice on how to do that, tells him that the only way to give him complete control over his sex drive is a ritual that uses sex magic. Harry finds that pretty ironic until he finds out what exactly the ritual entails: he has to let himself be tied down from sundown to sunset, and anyone who shows up gets to fuck him.

Kitty Love

(Anonymous) 2012-12-26 03:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Harry gets hit with a spell that zaps him into a female cat. The switch in gender is humiliating enough without Mister leering at him like that...

Re: Kitty Love

(Anonymous) 2012-12-26 11:15 pm (UTC)(link)
must have please?


[personal profile] patrick_diomedes 2012-12-26 08:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Harry finds out that Murphy and Sanya have been hooking up. He's not sure who he's more jealous of. Obviously this ends in a 3-way

[personal profile] patrick_diomedes 2013-01-01 05:41 am (UTC)(link)
More or less.
-the Outsiders are the servants/footsoldiers of the Old Ones
-Jim's said that Lovecraft was on to something with his writing, and it may have gotten him killed
-Also, the Gatekeeper was responsible for taking down Abdul Alhazred, author of the Necronomicon.

(Anonymous) 2013-01-01 10:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Can we have Ivy and Maggie starting to date each other, not knowing who the other is? Like they slowly reveal that they're in the supernatural community. That they're kinda involved with some stuff. And oh, by the way do you want to meet my dad/father figure?

Basically Maggie and Ivy fluff.

(frozen comment) Karrin accepts an offer from justine

(Anonymous) 2013-01-04 03:22 am (UTC)(link)
Post cold days Karrin fighting her attraction to Dresden (as usual) meets up with and accepts Justine's offer to go home with her. She knows about Justine sharing her lovers (either by foreknowledge or Justine told her) with Thomas and think it would be a great way to break her feelings for dresden.
Fluff, smut or whatever anon can decide.

(frozen comment) Re: Karrin accepts an offer from justine

(Anonymous) 2013-01-04 03:55 am (UTC)(link)
I love this but maybe we have thomas waiting for justine to bring a girl home and she brings home one of harry's possible love interests. Surprising thomas but he doesn't object and enjoys the experience.

(frozen comment) Re: Karrin accepts an offer from justine

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-04 04:00 (UTC) - Expand

(frozen comment) Re: Karrin accepts an offer from justine

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-04 04:23 (UTC) - Expand

(frozen comment) Re: Karrin accepts an offer from justine

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-04 04:34 (UTC) - Expand

(frozen comment) Re: Karrin accepts an offer from justine

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-04 04:50 (UTC) - Expand

(frozen comment) Re: Karrin accepts an offer from justine

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-04 04:54 (UTC) - Expand

(frozen comment) Re: Karrin accepts an offer from justine

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-04 05:02 (UTC) - Expand

(frozen comment) Re: Karrin accepts an offer from justine

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-04 05:08 (UTC) - Expand

(frozen comment) Re: Karrin accepts an offer from justine

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-04 05:10 (UTC) - Expand

(frozen comment) Re: Karrin accepts an offer from justine

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-04 05:09 (UTC) - Expand

(frozen comment) Re: Karrin accepts an offer from justine

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-04 04:56 (UTC) - Expand

(frozen comment) Re: Karrin accepts an offer from justine

(Anonymous) - 2013-01-04 05:38 (UTC) - Expand

Molly and Harry after Cold Days *spoilers*

(Anonymous) 2013-01-04 04:57 am (UTC)(link)
Just want to see someones take on molly and harry after the latest book.

It's Krill Or Be Krilled*

(Anonymous) 2013-01-04 05:25 am (UTC)(link)
Murphy fighting killer whale dudes. I don't know, meme, but I want all the Free Willy jokes.

(*As orcas do not actually eat krill, it's actually just "or be lunch".)


(Anonymous) 2013-01-04 05:42 am (UTC)(link)
Two of the most rocking ladies in the Dresden Universe rocking each other? What could be better!?