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dresden_kink_mods ([personal profile] dresden_kink_mods) wrote in [community profile] dresden_kink2011-03-21 09:37 pm
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Bible and the DF

(Anonymous) 2011-05-07 03:42 am (UTC)(link)
Are any biblical events accepted as canon in the Dresden-verse, outside of the crucifixion? Is anything mentioned?

Re: Bible and the DF

(Anonymous) 2011-05-07 01:20 pm (UTC)(link)
So far as I remember, it's not so much the events themselves as people's belief in them. I don't even know if the crucifixion is DF-canon, since I think the swords are explained as "it is believed that they each have a nail from the crucifixion" (not a direct quote).

I.E., the Shroud is such a powerful object and "miracles" happen around it because people believe they will happen.

I've always thought it was highly mind-blowing, though, that by this reasoning the Christian God exists because Man created him through belief, yet that same belief states that God created Man. Sort of like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg!

The only other one I can think of is Judas' betrayal, because we do have the thirty coins of the Denarians. People believe in that betrayal, believe it was wrong, and believe that the silver Judas took was cursed. So fallen angels inhabit the coins. If I remember right, Harry referenced the single gospel where Judas regretted his actions and hung himself afterwards (I want to say Mark, but it's been so long since I've looked at the Judas story I'm almost definitely wrong). And again, that could be wrong too.

I'm open to correction, of course, but essentially I've always thought that the actually reality of the events didn't matter as much in the DF-canon - the faith in them was the important part.
luciazephyr: Book of the Still, the time traveler's lifeline (Default)

Re: Bible and the DF

[personal profile] luciazephyr 2011-05-09 12:15 am (UTC)(link)
I might be wrong here, but Sue the Zombie Dinosaur may confirm that the Biblical Timeline is utter bullshit in the Dresdenverse? It seems to lend credibility to the idea that the Abrahamic God is just another powerful, faith-powered being like Odin?

Re: Bible and the DF

(Anonymous) 2011-05-09 12:21 am (UTC)(link)
Except I have heard dinosaurs explained by biblical believers as "when God created 'animals,' that included dinosaurs. Just because he created them doesn't mean he created them the way we see them today."

...which I find as just merging evolutionary theory with biblical belief (two different things, IMHO), but it could also work to explain certain things in the DF-verse as well.

However I will stick with the idea that, in DF-verse at least, the Biblical God is a faith-based being made particularly power (as well as non-directly-interfering and both merciful and vicious) by the number of believers and the strength of their faith.

Re: Bible and the DF

(Anonymous) 2012-04-29 01:24 pm (UTC)(link)
The timeline that certain sects hold to so tightly is actually the work of a 'modern', James Ussher (1581-1656), who in much the manner of Sherlockians combed the Bible and made some assumptions when the text didn't provide a finger or toe-hold within tolerances. (That he made the assumptions isn't the problem. The problem is that as his history was printed in an authorized Bible in 1701, lots of people take it as writ.)

Many denominations (and I think the Vatican may have said something Official too) have expressed that they have no beef with evolution or the geological record.

Re: Bible and the DF

(Anonymous) 2012-04-30 09:55 pm (UTC)(link)
I've also heard it said by Catholics and Christians that it says in the Bible that God created animals and God created Man - but that does not mean that he created animals the way we see them today, and that does not mean that he created Man the way he is today. Following that logic, evolutionary theory (and dinos) still works.

Also, I have at least once heard the argument that in the Bible it states something along the lines of "On the first day" and then "on the second day" (my Bible knowledge is a bit rusty on the details), but it does not state that these days happen consecutively. So it could be that God separated the light from the darkness on the first day, and hundreds of years later the "second" day happened and he separated the earth from the sky (that's the second day, right?)

(Please note that the above are not my own ideas, but things that I have heard from others; I cannot say as to how they might affect any Bible Timeline theories, or how they actually play into religion.)

Since Dresden-verse magic is based a lot on faith and a lot of the Bible is based on interpretation, I think it would be possible to make the two mesh.

Interesting thought, though - would the Garden of Eden part of the NeverNever, or a third layer of existence? Since there is a big chunk missing in the human evolution chain, where no concrete evidence has been found showing the evolution from ape to the earliest humans (at least, that was the case the last time I had an evolution class), and following the idea that God created man not as he is today (evolution occurred), and following the idea that the Garden of Eden is in the NeverNever or elsewhere - a possible theory could be that Adam, Adam's first wife (I forget her name), and Eve were created in the garden. When they and their families were cast out, they became what we know as the first humans.


I am totally not looking for a religious debate here, but posing theories as to how the Bible might work in the DF-verse. Please remember that I am trying to deposit a theory of creation into a work of fiction, using only remembered bits of my history class.